LJ/6A/SUP: Not as irrational as you think

[viciouswishes]

Please note that I am not part of LJ/6A/SUP and can't give company information into their business decisions. I also don't believe that everything they're doing is the best course of action or agree with it. I also believe that parents should monitor their own children.

What I am most astounded by is billions of posts by fandom acting as though SUP is out to get fandom and it's all about fandom. (Okay, maybe I'm more annoyed than surprised.) Why is SUP doing what it's doing? Why did 6A do what it did before selling LJ?

In the name of business. They were making a business decision that had nothing to do with fandom and in some ways, may protect fandom more than you think.

Every social network is under pressure to "protect the children" and to make money.

Let's start with protecting children. There are many watchdog groups out there, trying to protect children from pornography and online predators. Heck, Dateline's To Catch a Predator is a reality tv show that sets up online predators with "underage" kids and captures them on camera. (20/20 also has their own version.) MySpace removed thousands of profiles of users who were registered sex offenders. The U.S. government is continually passing and rewriting legislation aimed at protecting children online, whether it's pornography or predators.

Even if LJ is a blip on the social networking radar, except in Russia, that doesn't mean it's not going be affected. (Especially since they are continually disappointed not to be more than a blip.) Remember LJ's initial Deletegate? That was caused by some social conservative with a mission from her God up her butt who stumbled upon fandom.

Scenario #1: Social Conservative Troll with Lobby Group (SCTLG) stumbles upon LJ and then fandom through searchable user interests. SCTLG is shocked, horrified by NC-17 fanfic and art. SCTLG is further shocked by gay people, minorities, kinksters, etc. Now SCTLG knows the way to get heard is to find something that will "endanger children" and that the average citizen will agree children shouldn't be looking at. SCTLG than can petition the government to legally put a stop to what's endangering children or threaten 6A/SUP with legal action. SCTLG has the money, means, time, and connections.

Scenario #2: Disgruntled Parent (DP) finds his/her child reading my NC-17 fanfic. Shocked, horrified as the child has never done anything bad ever and shouldn't be able to find things like this easily on the internet to start with, DP decides that in addition to grounding the child for life, I am also responsible. DP sues to me for exposing his/her child, cites LJ as negligent, and opens a media circus if it's taken to court.

(Sidenote: I am a now-grown child of a DP who banned me from the internet during high school for looking up information about being a bisexual teenager and starting a gay-straight alliance. My DP declared what I was looking up as pornographic and went after my local high school and my circle of friends and favorite teachers instead of owners of web sites.)

By disabling search terms, LJ is covering its own butt. It is hiding what it doesn't want SCTLG or DP's child to find. LJ is trying to make itself not liable for any content on LJ that might endanger children. Because liable means that they can get named in lawsuits and that costs time, money, and resources. Not to mention the horrific PR and all the investors who will pull out their money.

Fandom is interesting in that the masses seem to both want fame and fortune (to be legitimized in mainstream life) and to keep itself hidden. You cannot have both. If you don't want to be criticized and shut down for "endangering children" or anything else deemed illegal or morally corrupt, then you don't want to be known in the mainstream. If you want spending your weekends writing McShep porn to be a legitimate hobby that you can talk about with your co-workers, then you're leaving yourself open for those criticisms.

I find it endlessly interesting that so much of fandom rallies behind the call of being able to do whatever you want online and on LJ and then I see so many of you writing that you cannot talk about your fandom activities with those closest to you, including RL spouses/partners. If you can't talk with the person who you have a romantic, sexually intimate relationship with, why would you assume that SCTLG or DP is going to welcome your hobby with open arms? The search term deletions will help put fandom back underground and unexposed on LJ.

As for the whole basic account thing, I'm surprised it didn't happen sooner. Every site has ads on it now, including the great refuge of Insane Journal. Ads make a lot of money. I had a friend who didn't work for about year and made enough money off his web site's ads to pay all his bills and not dig into his savings and he lives a cushier life than most people I've met. Again, taking away basic accounts is another business decision that has nothing to do with fandom.

While I don't agree with a lot of the things, LJ is doing, there is a pattern and it all has to do with business practices. It's not illogical or irrational and it's certainly not about fandom. If you want to move somewhere else to conduct your business, then by all means, that's your choice. And if you want to endlessly campaign LJ, you can do that too. However, approach LJ as a business, not as an illogical entity out to get fandom. Our complaints, including my own, might be addressed better if LJ wasn't approached as a best buddy or worst enemy on the schoolyard.

Comments

[amaresu]

Thank you.

That is all.

[viciouswishes.livejournal.com]

It needed to be said.

[denyce.livejournal.com]

I ♥ someone with reason on LJ go figure ;)

[viciouswishes.livejournal.com]

I try my very to remember that just because it's online that doesn't mean all logic falls out the window.

[redbrickrose.livejournal.com]

Thank you for this.

I don't agree with everything lj does either, but yes, they are a business and that is how they're behaving - and how we should expect them to behave.

Fandom is interesting in that the masses seem to both want fame and fortune (to be legitimized in mainstream life) and to keep itself hidden. You cannot have both.

I find this really interesting too and I do wonder how all of that is going to fall out in the long run. The whole idea of being "legitimate in the mainstream" totally leaves me cold.

[viciouswishes.livejournal.com]

It's always so interesting to me at how many people contribute the social networking of web 2.0 to be out of the kindness of corporation's hearts. Sure, Brad might've created LJ in order to keep up with his buddies, but it's certainly changed, grown, and been sold since then. People just seem to forgot that corporations only care about making money and they will make money anyway they can or try to keep that money.

I keep wondering how long it's going to be until fanfiction shows up as one of Bill O'Reilly's hot topics of people to bash for being dirty perverts or Dr. Phil's going to console the fanfic addict. It seems like with every new fandom, people in fandom are communicating more and more with creators, writers, and actors to be seen, heard, and acknowledged for their work. Okay, it's nice to know that Joss doesn't have a problem with fanfic, but he doesn't need to know every time someone cranks out a 100 word Spike/Xander master/slave fic.

If anything does "destroy" fandom, it's going to be it's "legitimization" mainstream, whether it comes in the form of companies sponsoring fanfic or companies/lobby groups/government trying to shut down fandom largely due to the assholes who are all "look at me, JKR, I wrote 40 Harry/Draco novels, will you talk to your publisher?"

Obviously, anyone with slight internet search skills will be able to easily find fanfic, but perhaps people should reconsider telling Jensen Ackles all about their incest porn.

[tx-cronopio.livejournal.com]

Well said!

[viciouswishes.livejournal.com]

Thank you. *hugs*

[monanotlisa.livejournal.com]

Thanks for this.

SUP hiding search terms re: sexuality and orientation makes me irrationally angry and frustrated, but admittedly mostly because LJ is effectively controlled by a society where "bisexuality" is grouped with "porn." What. The. Hell? Our cutesy self-naming notwithstanding, no one in this country would equate these two, and of course, nothing I write and create as web art would actually fall under the definition of "pornography."

[viciouswishes.livejournal.com]

Obviously, I wasn't very keen on LJ hiding terms dealing with sexuality and orientation either (which they've now since backpedaled and removed). However, I think a more interesting conversation, instead of just calling LJ homophobic, would be to consider why "bisexuality" would be grouped with "porn" and what that says about fandom's fetishization of queer people.

[justhuman.livejournal.com]

Thanks for saying out loud. I wasn't surprised by the ads and understand why a)people don't like it and b)brad has serious issue with it - and his reasons have much more to do with his baby and the disrespect to the advisory board.

Also, they're first official response was a hot steaming pile of crap -- that's the part that pisses me off. "We made a business decision" was all the response I needed. "We were streamlining the sign-up process was a half-true response at bet and lame on top of everything else.

I don't mind the search terms going underground - although the ones on orientation I think should be up there for social reasons. But I'd really like to know, who searches on "fandom" to find a fannish community? You search on the show names or actor names, find a couple of journals that match what you're looking for and then you stalk they're friends lists or ask on the general communities where to find your specific kink. And if it was a census thing, isn't that what we have fandomcounts for?

[viciouswishes.livejournal.com]

It was nice that LJ didn't have ads, but once they introduced "plus" accounts, it wasn't surprising. I really think that with those, at the end of the day, brad is the only one with a real leg to stand on to bitch about. Especially considering that most people with an LJ also have a Facebook, MySpace, or whatever that are covered with ads.

They definitely have shit PR. I imagine that their PR/marketing department works just as effectively as the one I work for. Which is to say there aren't enough people, nothing's ever decided, there are too many cooks in the kitchen, and no one has a clear plan or a way to execute it.

The orientation ones were definitely sketchy. But you are very right in that people search via show title or actors' names for fannish communities and people.

[callmesandy.livejournal.com]

Marry me? Or possibly whisper sweet sweet logic in my ear before I go postal on someone?

[viciouswishes.livejournal.com]

Anytime. :)

And wow, do I know that crazy-going-postal feeling...

[sparky77.livejournal.com]

Fandom is interesting in that the masses seem to both want fame and fortune (to be legitimized in mainstream life) and to keep itself hidden.

Yes, exactly! This is one of the many things I've been banging my head against the wall about with this. And thank you for this post because it articulates exactly what I've been feeling about all this.

[viciouswishes.livejournal.com]

You're welcome. It has been a very headbangy time lately.

[a2zmom.livejournal.com]

What a smartypants!

And it's true, most of what LJ has done has been to protect itself against lawsuits. If they were just more upfront about all this, people would be less grumpy.

[viciouswishes.livejournal.com]

Either that or my work life is starting to invade my fun time.

I think there would still be cries of oppression even if they did have better PR. However, at this point, I'm guessing that LJ's management doesn't tell both the PR and the Tech people what they want to do and arrange it so they happen together, but instead botches it. But that's only because I'm guessing that LJ works much like the company I work for.

[chicken-cem.livejournal.com]

I find it endlessly interesting that so much of fandom rallies behind the call of being able to do whatever you want online and on LJ and then I see so many of you writing that you cannot talk about your fandom activities with those closest to you, including RL spouses/partners.

This is the bit of hypocrisy no one ever talks about. Thank you for mentioning it. I don't understand it either. My spouse and I listen to podfics together, read and write fics together, etc. If you can't share this, then how honest is your relationship?

[viciouswishes.livejournal.com]

It really is a topic that I'd love to dive into further. I can see it tying into feminist theory about how women are less likely to write true autobiographies because they're afraid of offending people, even those who claim to love them no matter what.

Like you, I could never imagine hiding fandom from my partners and how much of who I am would have to change in order to do so. Because seriously, I have a huge ass DVD and comic book collection, action figures on my mantel, t-shirts about Star Trek, B5, WriterCon, Buffy, and Captain America, and those green and purple bedsheets are not by accident. We won't even talk about speech patterns or music on my iPod or how much my friends bring up tentacle monsters...

It really does boil down to honesty and I'm all about it, sometimes to a fault. One of Jason's very few rules is to be honest at all times no matter what and sometimes, it's not fun, but at the end of the day, I still prefer it.

[velvetwhip.livejournal.com]

My only real argument with what they just did was the way they did not announce it at all. It did make them look rather shifty. Other than that...


Gabrielle

[franklinshepard.livejournal.com]

I had no idea this happened until I read this post.

Of course, I tend to miss all lj drama anyway.

[rusty_halo.livejournal.com]

I don't think they're being irrational; I think they're being cowardly and greedy and caving in to homophobia.

Sure, they are a business. But I believe that businesses should balance profit with ethics. That's why I'm vegan, and why I try to avoid buying from companies that profit by hurting animals or abusing the environment. I wouldn't want to support a company that caves to homophobia, either, which is what LJ is doing when they try to hide that their users are interested in bisexuality.

[viciouswishes.livejournal.com]

While I think LJ is a little homophobic, just like everybody's a little homophobic (or racist or sexist), I think it's actually more interesting to look how fandom treats orientation and sexuality and why it's so intertwined in LJ interests.

I believe that businesses should balance profit with ethics.

And that's a great ideal. However, reality is that 99.99% of consumers don't give a shit. They just want their good and if it works, it works. You are in a great minority of those who care about the companies you are buying from.

I am very cynical when it comes to business, especially big business, in that I don't expect any of them to be ethical at all. I expect them to make as much money as possible and always cover their own asses. I work for a small branch of a Fortune 500 company (you probably own something they made) and I can tell you that they got there by cutting corners where ever they could and get away with it. At the end of the day, companies don't have souls or hearts; they aren't going to protect the consumer or respect equal rights. They're just going to make money.

I'm also cynical about fandom and how it's really only up-in-arms as it sees LJ doing something against it. If say, SUP didn't give domestic partner benefits (I have no idea if it does), I doubt there would be this same reaction.

BTW, they did take the search filter off so now you can once again search orientations, fandom terms, and whatever else they were filtering.

[likeadeuce.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the words of common sense.

[viciouswishes.livejournal.com]

Sometimes it's needed.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

Yes, exactly. Sigh. *realizes she never hit post, oops*

[viciouswishes.livejournal.com]

It just gets so...old.

[foxestacado.livejournal.com]

Thank you for this counterpoint. I had thought about participating in the strike, but now I'm not so sure. I had never considered that deleting those search terms may be aiding us rather than trying to censor us. I just wish that the Powers that Be came out and said so, and so perhaps make it easier to understand. I just can't help but think, however, that that was NOT their intention, and we're just trying to justify acts in their favor.

[viciouswishes.livejournal.com]

I don't think they were doing it to aid fandom, just to cover their own butts. However, the consequences can aid fandom in putting it back underground.

I'm also unsure why the strike is still going to happen as LJ took off the filter and is now showing all search results again. Unless, I am misinformed and that the strike is supposed to be about all the changes they've been making that have bothered users.

I, personally, will not be participating in the strike, but it has less to do with how I feel about LJ's policies and more about what I know about web statistics (I'm a web designer), content generation, participation of the masses, and how fandom is a much smaller representation on LJ than it thinks it is.

[inlaterdays.livejournal.com]

I'm here from a link in jehannamama's journal, and I wanted to let you know that I've linked to you too - I hope that's all right.

I'm still uncertain about what to do on Friday.

[viciouswishes.livejournal.com]

Linking is definitely a-okay with me. Public posts are after all public.

Things have changed a bit since LJ has removed the filtering of interests and might again be listening to their advisory board.

I, personally, will not be participating, which has more to do with my views on web statistics (byproduct of the day job). Overall, I wouldn't be worried about fandom coming to a grinding halt that day and moreover, LJ definitely won't.

[spleenjournal.livejournal.com]

High five.

[viciouswishes.livejournal.com]

:)

[sweptawaybayou.livejournal.com]

*applauds*

thank you

[viciouswishes.livejournal.com]

You're welcome.

Here through tx_cronopio

[icewolf010.livejournal.com]

Lovely. Just lovely.

Re: Here through tx_cronopio

[viciouswishes.livejournal.com]

Glad you enjoyed.

[dalehead.livejournal.com]

*applaudes* Hallelujah! Thank you for saying this so eruditely.

It needed to be said.

[viciouswishes.livejournal.com]

It definitely did.

[maystone.livejournal.com]

I'm here by way of sparky77, and I just wanted to add a heartfelt "Yes!" and a simple "Thank you."

I belong to a few fandoms. I've written my share of fanfic. But you know what? I still don't believe that I'm owed a special status by any corporate entity, up to and including LJ, the networks, the show runners, or the cast and crew. It's a business, all of it.

Write the fantasy but live in the reality, guys.

[viciouswishes.livejournal.com]

Sometimes I wonder why people think that fandom is a special exception to how corporations usually behave. We can either make them more money or take away what they have either by market competition or costing them money. We're definitely not special.

[elven-wolf.livejournal.com]

Word.

[naanima.livejournal.com]

Apologies for butting in, but I had to say something; I pretty much agree with everything you say, however, I am slightly bemused about your implied belief that the only reason people would have problems with LJ/SUPs decision is because they think LJ is going after fandom. I have no problem in regards to LJ/SUP's objective of wanting to create a business model that can generate more revenue and profit for their organisation. My issue is with the way they went about deleting the Basics Account without an announcement to their customers, the removal of terms in the interests statistics which can be construed as lying about customer base, which is what they need to get the ads onto their site, and then of course there is the brilliant interview with the SUP's director of blog division, who seem to have only contempt for LJ's customers.

There is a thing called corporate governance and social responsibility, and while clarifying their TOS in regards to pornography is a good move to avoid future conflicts, removal of certain features and purposely lying about their client base is not ethical , and the latter can be considered to be illegal in certain countries. This is a case of the means justifying the ends, which is not on, generating profit should be the highest goal in a business, however, ethical business practice should be adhered to at all times.

In conclusion, I do agree with all the moves that LJ/SUPs have done, what I am in disagreement is the way it was accomplished.

[viciouswishes.livejournal.com]

My reaction was to many blog posts in fandom that seemed to indicate this was just another one of LJ/SUP's ways of sticking it to fandom. As the debate has gone on, more and more posts have been non-fandom. Particularly with them putting back up the interest searches.

I'm definitely not disagreeing that LJ/SUP had some bad PR and disconnect between what their IT and PR departments were or weren't doing.

However, I also think many reactions from users have shown a cultural disconnect and many responses to Anton Nosik have been downright xenophobic and anti-Semitic, showing various shades of the Ugly American. There's a huge difference between someone being an asshole and calling that person a Fascist as some users have referred to Nosik as.

I definitely understand why brad was pissed off at them for ignoring the Advisory Board, especially as LJ is his baby. However, I'm not quite sold on them going forward against and without the advice of the Advisory Board as going outside corporate governance as that would depend on what the terms of the Advisory Board are.

A lot of users have placed too much emphasis on social responsibility and expecting corporations to have their best interests at heart. Yes, in a perfect world, every corporation would be better at social responsibility. But in the free market and the developing frontier of the internet, you're rarely going to find that. Heck, look at the current US mortgage crisis for a far more evil example than LJ/SUP.

the latter can be considered to be illegal in certain countries

I am unsure about this. Most companies use user statistics to better their own sales and their business partners sales. Usually the government doesn't come and check to see who's using your services. Which as far as US laws, where LJ is physically based, they've already shown that they will help out the US government in keeping pornography away from children. And I imagine that countries where the regime is stricter about user bases, they probably block any and all social networking and filter the internet to start with.

[shehasathree]

oh will *someone* please think of the (depressed) children!

[viciouswishes.livejournal.com]

That's why we keep supplying them with porn.

[halfbloodme.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much for posting this. Finally a voice of reason. I don't agree with the way LJ/SUP have gone about things, but you're right, they are a business.

[viciouswishes.livejournal.com]

It definitely has been interesting to see how many people forgot they are a business.

BTW, I love your icon.